The Ukrainification of eastern Russian speaking/ethnic Russian part of Ukraine has been an untold story extending to schools, media, people's names, street names, religion, job applications., dress.
The people's side of the story needs told (as opposed to either government's account). Normally we would call for a referendum/border poll---in this case though, we will only accept the result if its the one we want and so will both sides. I do wish we would stop spending zillions on sending arms when our own people are struggling and try for a diplomatic/political solution.
When you ask for a vote--usually you only does so when you are sure one is going to get the answer you want (David Cameron take note)
What I am suggesting in my previous comment is that a mature professional media might u have explored the issue-this would have included a bit of history and listening to both sides. If I am Russian I do not want NATO missiles on my border nor my warm water fleet trapped in a NATO facing country. Diplomacy usually involves trying to understand how the other side sees things.
How legitimate was the referendum in Crimea. In the aftermath of the 2nd World War, Crimea was majority Russian---after the expulsion of the Tatars----it was then "given" by Kruschev by Russia to Ukraine in 1954. Does this make it Russian,Ukrainian,Crimean or Tatar land. Similarly Eastern Ukraine may be a moveable border. I don't know and if I am being honest, I am not sure why we seem to care so much after ignoring horrific wars in Africa or Sudan,Yemen,Congo,Rwanda. Why do we see so many Ukrainian flags? I am neither defending nor supporting Putin, I am not clear that Ukraine has been the bastion of freedom and democracy that it is being made out to be.
That Ukraine's not Switzerland (neither is the USA)? That there are other conflicts going on?
What does any of that have to do with Putin's actions is Ukraine? Nothing, besides muddling the waters and creating doubt.
I get that you don't see yourself as 'pro-Putin', but authoritarians like him love the policy you're supporting. Giving Putin a free hand to continue to undermine any attempt at democracy in the region is all he wants from those who profess to be pro-democracy.
Diplomacy is not simply understanding the 'other side' (that's also part of many other endeavors, such as warfare) but, more importantly, coming to an agreement with the other side, preferably without resorting to the use of force. And we have a good idea that any agreement that involves a fully independent Ukraine would not be acceptable to the current Russian government. Everything else is hot air (but useful for propaganda).
I think you misunderstand-I am simply saying there is another side, which should be heard. I do not see the democratic credentials of the Ukrainian government that we are so desperate to protect. It would be better if we used power and money for development purposes, both in democratic and investment terms rather than a blank check. Is it not ok to ask about Western expansionist policies or question our policies eg in Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam. That does not mean we should not question Tibet, Yemen, Congo.....
Don't worry, I understand you completely, and I understand that the devastation caused by Russian forces to Ukraine's people and their country is secondary to your other worries.
I'm aware that there are two sides, and I find it interesting to what side you are worried is not being represented. I also feel for the Russian people, who have lived in Putin's authoritarian Russia for over 20 years.
The Ukrainification of eastern Russian speaking/ethnic Russian part of Ukraine has been an untold story extending to schools, media, people's names, street names, religion, job applications., dress.
The people's side of the story needs told (as opposed to either government's account). Normally we would call for a referendum/border poll---in this case though, we will only accept the result if its the one we want and so will both sides. I do wish we would stop spending zillions on sending arms when our own people are struggling and try for a diplomatic/political solution.
What is your opinion on the legality of the 'referendums' that were conducted by the Russian forces?
When you ask for a vote--usually you only does so when you are sure one is going to get the answer you want (David Cameron take note)
What I am suggesting in my previous comment is that a mature professional media might u have explored the issue-this would have included a bit of history and listening to both sides. If I am Russian I do not want NATO missiles on my border nor my warm water fleet trapped in a NATO facing country. Diplomacy usually involves trying to understand how the other side sees things.
How legitimate was the referendum in Crimea. In the aftermath of the 2nd World War, Crimea was majority Russian---after the expulsion of the Tatars----it was then "given" by Kruschev by Russia to Ukraine in 1954. Does this make it Russian,Ukrainian,Crimean or Tatar land. Similarly Eastern Ukraine may be a moveable border. I don't know and if I am being honest, I am not sure why we seem to care so much after ignoring horrific wars in Africa or Sudan,Yemen,Congo,Rwanda. Why do we see so many Ukrainian flags? I am neither defending nor supporting Putin, I am not clear that Ukraine has been the bastion of freedom and democracy that it is being made out to be.
So what are you saying?
That Ukraine's not Switzerland (neither is the USA)? That there are other conflicts going on?
What does any of that have to do with Putin's actions is Ukraine? Nothing, besides muddling the waters and creating doubt.
I get that you don't see yourself as 'pro-Putin', but authoritarians like him love the policy you're supporting. Giving Putin a free hand to continue to undermine any attempt at democracy in the region is all he wants from those who profess to be pro-democracy.
Diplomacy is not simply understanding the 'other side' (that's also part of many other endeavors, such as warfare) but, more importantly, coming to an agreement with the other side, preferably without resorting to the use of force. And we have a good idea that any agreement that involves a fully independent Ukraine would not be acceptable to the current Russian government. Everything else is hot air (but useful for propaganda).
I think you misunderstand-I am simply saying there is another side, which should be heard. I do not see the democratic credentials of the Ukrainian government that we are so desperate to protect. It would be better if we used power and money for development purposes, both in democratic and investment terms rather than a blank check. Is it not ok to ask about Western expansionist policies or question our policies eg in Iraq or Afghanistan or Vietnam. That does not mean we should not question Tibet, Yemen, Congo.....
Don't worry, I understand you completely, and I understand that the devastation caused by Russian forces to Ukraine's people and their country is secondary to your other worries.
I'm aware that there are two sides, and I find it interesting to what side you are worried is not being represented. I also feel for the Russian people, who have lived in Putin's authoritarian Russia for over 20 years.